Interview with Penny Moodie and Hugh van Cuylenburg: Vulnerability, Mental Health, Purpose, Mental Load, and Cricket Analogies

These Show Notes are a ChatGPT summary of the episode transcript (with brief additional editing)

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In this week’s episode Kim and Rog chat with Penny Moodie and Hugh van Cuylenburg. A couple who have committed their lives and careers to making real change in the mental health space, and they’ve really struck a chord with the Australian public.

Throughout the podcast Penny, author of the trail blazing book ‘The Joy Thief’, and Hugh, founder of the Resilience Project and The Imperfects podcast, get raw and vulnerable about their own relationship. By the end of that conversation, it’s clear that these two really do practice what they preach.

Stepping back in time, Penny and Hugh reminisce on the earlier days of their relationship. They recall their first date and the immediate bond they felt, emphasizing the importance of authenticity and the comfort they found in one another. Hugh provides insight into his thoughts on how he knew Penny was the one the moment he realized he could be himself with her, not having to play a role to impress.

Penny’s published work, “The Joy Thief”, is brought to the forefront, with Kim and Rog expressing commendation for its insightful narrative and significant effect on its readers. Penny’s struggle with OCD and anxiety is openly discussed by both partners. She emphasizes the struggle she faced in accepting her mental illness and credits Hugh for his unwavering support. She also underscores the value of the right therapeutic help and the indispensable role of self-compassion in her mental health journey.

Kim and Rog, express their gratitude towards Penny and Hugh for their openness and vulnerability. The power of sharing personal experiences and its potential impact on others is underscored, with the hosts pointing out that by being so vulnerable publicly they are making this important skill more accessible to others, improving the mental health of listeners and readers.

The hosts too, share their personal experiences of grappling with Kim’s epilepsy and parenting achild with additional needs, underlining the essence of self-compassion and a safe, open space for discussion during hardships. They recognize the importance of a strong communication base and understanding, especially when one partner is battling mental illness.

In the second half of the interview, Kim and Rog delve into the more pragmatic aspects of relationships, such as division of household labour through “Fair Play” cards, an innovative method for allocating household responsibilities, aiming for a balance in the division of labour. Something that Penny and Hugh discussed openly in the now infamous discussion on The Imperfects podcast.

Penny and Hugh share their positive experience with this solution, noting how it has improved their organization and planning for chores. This led to a broader discussion about open communication on mental load in relationships, a crucial factor during challenging times like the early years of parenthood – something that often isn’t proactively discussed.

Rog asks Hugh about his use of sporting analogies as a window into viewing mental load and invisible work in relationships. Hugh reflects on how his cricket coaching background emphasized the importance of preparation and organization, and using the analogy allowed him to reframe how he approach this aspect of their relationship.

Penny and Hugh emphasize their shared values despite their individual pursuits in the mental health space and describe themselves as mutual cheerleaders, providing unwavering support to each other. Hugh uses a cricket analogy to illustrate their partnership, likening it to two batsmen in a cricket match—each meeting in the middle and constantly cheering the other on with supportive comments like “good stuff, keep going.”